nasty rhetoric

Up, Down.



"... resulting radiation illnesses, though, weren't as bad as expected ..."

"... surprisingly low mortality figures ..."

"... only 46 deaths came about due to radiation exposure ..."

and so forth ... this is daemonic journalism: the 'facts' are all relatives of relatives of relatives, not lies exactly but small threads taken out of context and spun for all they are worth - and the message is (all nicely painted green), (it seems to me):

Calm yourselves, we are going to be building large numbers of nuclear power plants in the next years to offset global climate change ... but it is all going to be OK.

Trust us, we are from the government and we are here to HELP you.
(a-and, oh yes, 'The cheque is in the mail,' and 'I won't come in your mouth.')

Matthias Schulz, Nuclear Exaggeration,
Source:
     Part 1: Is Atomic Radiation as Dangerous as We Thought?.
     Part 2: Atomic Dangers or Doomsday Folklore?.

more on this shortly maybe if I can find out where he is coming from ...
also this ... subtler but ... nasty too

Mark Landler, Sweden Turns to a Promising Power Source, With Flaws, Source.

Oh well, I can't find out anything much about Matthias Schulz - common name, a few candidates but no one clearly claiming this twisted point-of-view, just some Spiegel hack I guess - who cares?

And truth-be-told I have very little energy for this anymore - it doesn't really 'work'. Neither the technology nor the software nor the process is contributing; neither to me, to the exchange of ideas, to positive change - that I can see at least, unless you happen to be johnny-on-the-spot with a video camera.


This is a windfarm mear Malmo, Sweden, and below is Arne Floderus, the 'architect'.

Actually he is a Vatenfall Project Manager, who knows - but he looks ... 'satisfied' sort of - in a grim scandinavian way.

Anyway, these pictures give me hope; that's it.

No Tags: fuck the Technorati Tags, they dont work!
Down.

Sunday Meditation

Up, Down.

If all the things you see ain't what they seem,
Then don't mind me 'cos I ain't nothin' but a dream.
     Richie Havens, Follow.

1. Global Warming.

"The world is already at or above the worst case scenarios in terms of emissions. In terms of emissions, we are moving past the most pessimistic estimates of the I.P.C.C., and by some estimates we are above that red line."
     Gernot Klepper, Kiel Institute for World Economy, Germany.

Summary of the Synthesis Report of the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report ($@*%! pdf!).

U.N. Report Describes Risks of Inaction on Climate Change, Source.
Climate change panel too slow to react?, Source.
A 4th Climate Warning. Anyone Listening?, Source.

Either the governments will not react with any effect whatsoever, a global cluster fuck; or they will react with nuclear power plants and spraying trillions and quadrillions of tiny bits of tinfoil into the upper atmosphere. Either way ...

Can things change without governments? They are bureaucracies, their only tool is fiscalização, nothing much happens either because of or in spite of them but they have all the power - so the answer is, probably not.

The picture is of Kangerlussuaq glacier in Greenland, from Andrew C. Revkin at NYT.

2. Tupi Oil Field.

Economist, All this and oil too, Source.
Jornal do Brasil, 'Deus pode ser brasileiro', Source.

Of course they have known about it for some time so the release of the information is probably as the editorial writer at Jornal do Brasil says, a tactic to divert attention from recent stockmarket losses.

Still, if God really is brasilian ... :-)

20/11/07, Lula: está provado que Deus é brasileiro, Source.

Someone always goes and spoils things, turns out it is the devil who is Brasilian ... oh well, good while it lasted ...

3. Burma / Myanmar.

Paulo Sérgio Pinheiro, interesting guy. In the tradition (for me) of Sérgio Vieira de Mello a Brasilian diplomat killed in Iraq, Urano Teixeira da Matta Bacellar a commander in Haiti who suicided, and José Maurício Bustani who was negotiating access to Iraqi chemical weapons installations (if there were any) (rather than bomb them back to the stone age) and got fired by Bush for his trouble.



"In interviews I am almost invariably asked at some point whether I feel optimistic or pessimistic about some contemporary situation. The answer is that these imbecile words are euphemisms for manic-depressive highs and lows, and that anyone who struggles for sanity avoids both."
     Northrop Frye, The Double Vision.

Follow, Richie Havens, words by Jerry Merrick

Let the river rock you like a cradle
Climb to the treetops, child, if you're able
Let your hands tie a knot across the table.
Come and touch the things you cannot feel.
And close your fingertips and fly where I can't hold you
Let the sun-rain fall and let the dewy clouds enfold you
And maybe you can sing to me the words I just told you,
If all the things you feel ain't what they seem.
And don't mind me 'cos I ain't nothin' but a dream.

The mocking bird sings each different song
Each song has wings - they won't stay long.
Do those who hear think he's doing wrong?
While the church bell tolls its one-note song
And the school bell is tinkling to the throng.
Come here where your ears cannot hear.
And close your eyes, child, and listen to what I'll tell you
Follow in the darkest night the sounds that may impel you
And the song that I am singing may disturb or serve to quell you
If all the sounds you hear ain't what they seem,
Then don't mind me 'cos I ain't nothin' but a dream.

The rising smell of fresh-cut grass,
Smothered cities choke and yell with fuming gas;
I hold some grapes up to the sun
And their flavour breaks upon my tongue.
With eager tongues we taste our strife
And fill our lungs with seas of life.
Come taste and smell the waters of our time.
And close your lips, child, so softly I might kiss you,
Let your flower perfume out and let the winds caress you.
As I walk on through the garden, I am hoping I don't miss you
If all the things you taste ain't what they seem,
Then don't mind me 'cos I ain't nothin' but a dream.

The sun and moon both are right,
And we'll see them soon through days of night
But now silver leaves on mirrors bring delight.
And the colours of your eyes are fiery bright,
While darkness blinds the skies with all its light.
Come see where your eyes cannot see.
And close your eyes, child, and look at what I'll show you;
Let your mind go reeling out and let the breezes blow you,
Then maybe, when we meet, suddenly I will know you.
If all the things you see ain't what they seem,
Then don't mind me 'cos I ain't nothin' but a dream.
And you can follow; And you can follow; follow...

(and Jesse Winchester's Nothing But A Breeze on the sidebar)

4. Robert Dziekanski, (see below).

Failures ... of the Canadian Immigration service not to have forseen the difficulty of a man with no english; of the Vancouver Airport authorities for not noticing what was going on; of the individuals at the scene who did not have sufficient compassion to interfere effectively, though at least one of them tried; of the airport security forces specifically for not dealing with Robert - surely this can't have been the first time such a person presented; of the RCMP both as an organization and in the individual actions of the four nameless bullies; of the man himself for not learning the rudiments of the language of his new country; of his mother Zofia for giving up and going home and for trusting that all would be well ... ai ai ai.

The RCMP should bear the brunt; the four goons should be behind bars waiting for trial on murder. But in another sense that would make them scapegoats for the culture of ignorance that we have, each and every one of us, allowed to flourish, and not only in Canada.

Thank goodness for Paul Pritchard; not only that he was there with a camera, but that he is articulate and engaged and self posessed and stayed with it to the extent of hiring a lawyer to help him get the video back. God bless him, and God bless Robert and his mother Zofia.

Down.

Epitome / Paragon

Up, Down.

epitome, noun, A person who or thing which is a perfect embodiment of a particular quality or type. Usually in a phrase such as 'the (very) epitome of ... .'

paragon, noun, A person of outstanding merit; a person who serves as a model of some quality; and, an object of outstanding quality or value; an object which serves as a model of some quality.

     from the Oxford English Dictionary (OED).


Gentle, modest, little flower,
Sweet epitome of May ...
     W.S. Gilbert, The Bab Ballads.

Mighty maiden with a mission,
Paragon of common sense,
Running fount of erudition,
Miracle of eloquence.
     W.S. Gilbert & Arthur Sullivan, Princess Ida.

(from The Gilbert and Sullivan Archive, and Wikipedia)

What actually happened was like this ... last night reading Northrop Frye's Biblical and Classical Myths, which is transcribed more-or-less from his lectures at University of Toronto, I began to sense his dark side. And this is what led to me wondering this morning about words like epitome and paragon; and I'm not going to explain much more than that.

The other thought was around the co-author of this book, Jay MacPherson - who turns out to be a woman; which took me down to Saturday Night Live and the 'Pat' skits.

A-and that, being more than is mete, is really all!

mete, n,
1. A particular point or position, especially a turning point or finishing point. Also: a mark or target. Also figuratively, obsolete.
2. A boundary or limit (material or immaterial); a boundary stone or mark. Usually (now only) (chiefly Law) metes and bounds. Also figuratively.
3. Extent (size, character, etc.) as ascertainable by measuring; a person's calibre or stamp; (more generally) a measure.

Down.

Robert Dziekanski

Up, Down.

Jurek Baltakis, Eulogy, Source.

"O desrespeito ao ser humano virou banalidade."
     O Estado de S. Paulo.

"The Mounties have already downgraded the video from "evidence vital to the investigation" - their description when they initially refused Mr. Pritchard's demand to return it - to "only one piece of evidence," now that the footage is in the public domain."

The Video, (and a backup at YouTube).

They will learn, the maggots - the next time they will Taser the guy with the camera first!

THX 1138:



Mark Hume, Video stirs troubling questions on tasers, Source.
Globe Editorial, The taser death of Robert Dziekanski, Source.
Adam Radwanski - So, what else is on?, Source.
Cynthia Yoo & Rafal Gerszak, Video Transcript, Source.
Rod Mickleburgh, The tragic amateur video tells the whole story - or does it?, Source.
BBC Brasil, Vídeo mostra imigrante sendo morto por choque no Canadá, Source.
Globe Editorial, RCMP falsehoods on Dziekanski's death, Source.
There was one person who tried to help - Sima Ashrafinia, Source.
Some good thoughts from Erik Anonymous in Victoria Canada.
B.C. Mounties face growing public outrage, Source.
RCMP Commissioner's Statement - Incident at Vancouver Airport, Source.
20/11/07, 'Vacuum' sparks B.C. taser inquiry, Source.

Canadian Government (These email links work with Outlook, I am not sure about other clients, please let me know):
     Stephen Harper, Prime Minister - E-mail.
     Stockwell Burt Day, Minister of Public Safety - E-mail.
     Loyola Hearn, Member of Parliament - E-mail.
     List of Members of Canadian Parliament.

============================================================================

Previously in Pigs, Death ... & stuff.

And a story about a recent human death, say, a recent homicide by the RCMP:

17/10/07, CTV, Man who died in airport likely asking for help: mom, Source.
19/10/07, CBC, Witness blames RCMP, Vancouver airport for death of Tasered man, Source.
26/10/07, Mark Hume - Sunny Dhillon, Questions hang over taser death, Source.
26/10/07, Editorial, The tragic death of Mr. Dziekanski, Source.



More useless Canadian hand-wringing.

A-and another RCMP cover-up underway: Witness going to court to retrieve Taser video, Bill Cleverley, Times Colonist, Source.

============================================================================

Globe Comments on - RCMP falsehoods on Dziekanski's death:

l. mills from west coast, Canada writes: It has always been the RCMP's version of events that has taken precidence - even when we know they've lied, we, the public, have had no recourse until now. I hope finally something is done so that they never have another chance to investigate themselves - they lost my respect a long time ago. 18/11/07

David Wilson, from Niteroi, Brazil writes: Here in Brasil extra-judicial killings by police occur regularly, but there is almost always a motive, however twisted: to silence someone who knows too much; frustration with the courts; revenge; greed ... the list goes on. Paulo Sergio Pinheiro, the Brasilian diplomat recently sent to Burma, reports 24 murders per 100,000 in Brasil in 1997 compared with 1.5 in Britain (Canada was not included in this comparison). And yes, sometimes the killing does seem just gratuitous - but even then, considering the intense pressures of poverty and illiteracy, it is possible to 'understand' at some level. What is so horrible and disgusting to me about the killing of Robert Dziekanski is that there was no reason, no rationale, no motive, just four thoughtless bullies wielding the power of death. The stuffed shirts who are urging us not to jump to conclusions are serving only themselves. There is even quasi-philosophical hair-splitting about whether videos comprise a veritable record of events. What nonsense! And, of course, the manufacturers of these devices maintain a steady one-note samba of denial - in the name of serving their stock-holders I suppose. All that can be said with certainty is that the next time the goon squad arrives they will likely glace to the right and glance to the left to see who has a video camera - and Taser him or her first! Ian Bush was murdered in a closed room with the video turned off. Zaccardelli was not an exception - he was the very epitome of what the RCMP has become. Mr. Elliott will possibly turn Canadian 'reserve' to his advantage and find a way to delay and make this all disappear - but what should happen is that the four men who did this thing should immediately find themselves in jail awaiting trial for murder ... eh? That is what happens sometimes, even in Brasil. 18/11/07

Michael Balz from Cancun, Mexico writes: I could not agree more with D. Wilson's comments. Anyone who kills in cold blood is normally arrested, charged and then stands trial. Why are the four RCMP officers not yet charged with manslaughter, arrested and made to post bail like other killers? And why aren't officers, such as Sgt. Pierre Lemaitre, who give false versions of events not arrested and charged with obstruction of justice? Is the RCMP above the law? The RCMP is a disgrace to Canada. 18/11/07

stephen ottridge from vancouver, Canada writes: Canada needs a public inquiry into the RCMP not one for Brian Mulroney.
I see that the 4 officers have been reassigned, aren't there some small towns in Nunavut that need a new Mountie. 18/11/07

Crazy Canuck from Vancouver, Canada writes: I am getting really sick of the rush to judgement that has come from many quarters. Perhaps the most disturbing are commentaries like the one by David Wilson and Michael Balz because they presume that tasers are used with the intent to kill - they are not. They are non-lethal devices that have never been shown to be the cause of any death. Similar deaths have occurred when the police use pepper spray or simply put suspects in a headlock.

You could argue that police should not be allowed to use tasers because they are potentially lethal. However, that argument does not mean that the police used them with intent to kill.

This death was an accident that is no different from the many other deaths of out of control people who need to subdued by the police. It is time for whinging to stop. 18/11/07

Brent Beach from Victoria, Canada writes: Would the actions of the RCMP at the airport have been acceptable if Mr. Dziekanski had not died?

Watching the video, it occurred to me that the officers were fairly good at what they did. They quite calmly formed a circle around an unarmed man, making no attempt to calm him, then subdued him with considerable force, aided by a couple of taser shots. They clearly had been trained to do this and executed the operation faultlessly. Had Mr. Dziekanski not died, it would have been exactly what they wanted to do.

A few months ago two police in Oak Bay near Victoria pulled a 70 year old out of his car for not wearing a seat belt, handcuffed him. This man did not die, he just bled a lot.

Who sets the operational standards for police forces in Canada? Do we need a change? 18/11/07

stephen ottridge from vancouver, Canada writes: Cross country checkup today talked about the RCMP driving to the airport, don't they have officers on site permanently? It has to be pretty dull out there, imagine a chance to do something, to prove that we are big tough cops. I wonder if they had ever fired a taser against real people. 18/11/07

Brian Whitmore from Toronto, Canada writes: The video is the video. it is hard to dispute what is seen, especially the speed at which the RCMP tasered Mr. Dziekanski, who had his hands up the air in deference to the officers.

What is not at issue is the use of tasers as a tool for police enforcement. I'd rather have police reach first for their tasers over their guns any day, especially when lethal force is not called for. It is a tragedy that Mr. Dziekanski died that day from presumably the taser, but one cannot say that its use is any more dangerous than the use of a gun. It probably far less dangerous.

The issue is the actions of the officers in the situation and their apparent lack of training in the art of negotiation. Doesn't matter that the person is speaking another language. That situation should be expected in a diverse country such as Canada.

Remember "Tasers don't kill people, people kill people," to paraphrase a quote we all know. 19/11/07

Christine Best from Toronto, Canada writes: I agree that the tasers aren't really the issue here - it is the fact that the officers clearly resorted to excessive force almost immediately. Before tasers they may have just clubbed the man.

Perhaps they are so untrained that they were not aware that a taser shot is extremely forceful and dangerous - as is kneeling on someone's neck. Perhaps they are just insensitive bullies. Either way - they aren't currently responsible enough to deal with the public....so why are they allowed in these jobs??

Maybe to qualify to carry a taser you have to be tasered yourself once so you have some respect for the tool. If you honestly believe that tasers are safe and to be used for convenience - you won't mind getting a shot yourself! 19/11/07

T M from Canada writes: Crazy Canuck - how deluded can you possibly get? Some people will blindly follow the lead of authority to whatever tune it plays, even if it reeks of dishonesty. Wake up. 19/11/07

John Melnick from High River AB, Canada writes: Mr. Dziekanski's death is an unimaginable tragedy and whether he died as a direct result of the taser or from other causes will hopefully be resolved. This should result in corrective action to present training, procedures, use of tasers and public relations as appropriate. What is indisputable and almost as disturbing is the distortion of the facts as later revealed by the video. Makes me wonder what a camera in Ian Bush's cell would have revealed? As a lifelong supporter and admirer of the RCMP I can say that my esteem has slipped of late as a result of incidents such as this as well as from personal experience. 19/11/07

Crazy Canuck from Vancouver, Canada writes: T M - I would suggest that you set aside your prejudices and look at what was actually in the video - not what your prejudices make you want to believe. You will find that the video does not capture a lot of information that would be essential to determining whether the RCMP acted appropriately. Rushing to judge the RCMP based on the video alone undermines the efforts to ensure such a tragedy does not occur in the future.

The National Post has a couple good articles that provide a more objective analysis of what is in the video (more importantly - what was NOT in the video).

The G&Ms coverage on this issue has been extremely disappointing. The editors appear to be more interested in pandering to the lynch mob instead of reporting the facts. 19/11/07

concerned voter from Canada writes: there are so many unanswered questions here, starting with what this polish gentleman had been doing for nearly 10 hours or whatever it was in the secure area ...why was he apparently not addressed by somebody during that time..it is inconceivable to me that I, for example ,would not be challenged at any airport in the land by a security guard or someone if I was wandering in a secure area for that time..why did all that happen...and it seems that the RCMP arrive at 'the end' of the duration, make some very poor assessments of the situation and go completely overboard in their actions...we the Canadian public need answers that cover the whole 10 hours or whatever, and it is a further sad reflection of how low the RCMP can stoop if they cant even come forward with a reasonable objective account of their role in all this. Yes, they are very close to losing any confidence from the Canadian public...and it underscores what a shambles they are when we still dont have any word on the circumstances surrpounding the Mayerthorpe tradgedy and many more...so please Mr. harper and your Government, dont give tacit support to this RCMP misguided words, support Canada and its people, not just glibly follow a rigid police support dogma. 19/11/07

T M from Canada writes: The RCMP have had the benefit of the doubt for too long. No more. I'm not surprised that the Post is suggesting mitigating circumstances. If it weren't for the video we would have no choice but to believe the RCMP lies about this situation. This is the whole point of the editorial - that they flat out lied on top of the original brutality. Unsurprising, but I have had enough. 19/11/07

David Wilson, from Niteroi, Brazil writes: I always like to see whingeing spelled with a 'g'; but I think there is an 'e' there too ... lemme just check the OED ... yes, 'whinging' is 'moving with great force or impetus' ... so I think you meant to say 'whingeing'. I never saw the g much before Patrick White became popular in North America so I suspect that this is an Australian influence. A-and really that is about the only sensible thing I can add I guess, except maybe this: One woman is seen in the video trying (sadly ineffectually) to calm Robert Dziekanski down. She is Sima Ashrafinia; you can find what she has to say with a google. But here is my thought - where were all the rest of the people in that airport for 10 hours? In this city of Niteroi and neighbouring Rio de Janeiro, if you fall down in the street people will pick you up; strangers will actually take hold of you and lift you back to your feet. This has happened to me personally, and I have seen it on several other occasions. In the Canada I grew up in, which was Toronto of the 50s and 60s this was also true. I remember being carried in the arms of a policeman one day (I was 10 or 11) when I crashed my bike at the corner of Lawrence and Yonge, into his car and then home to my mother. So to whomever it was who thought I was whingeing - I am not. What I am doing is giving y'all the hee-haw horse-laugh, from right here inside one of the most violent cities in the world. When is one of you (or even several of you) going to go down to your police station and file a complaint, manslaughter against the four RCMP goons, and obstructing justice against their mealy-mouthed spokesmen who have been lying to you? If I were there I would do it myself, but PTL I am not. Be well. 19/11/07

Lavrenty Beria from Waterloo, Canada writes: The Globe asks: how will we be able to believe the RCMP's version of events concerning future incidents? Never mind future incidents, there is enough in the organizations sordid past to warrant serious action to change the way that deaths at the hands of the RCMP are dealt with. Consider the case of Ian Bush, who was shot in the BACK of the head and killed while in the custody of the RCMP by a rookie officer during 2005. What possible justification is there for an unarmed 22 year old, arrested by a rookie for having an open beer, being shot in the back of the head. Of course, the RCMP did, and continues to balk, cover-up, and drag its feet over the issue. During my own youth, I was in possession of open beer out of residence on countless occasions, and I evidently deserved to have been arrested and summarily executed numerous times over. The RCMP is quite simply out of control. A full blown inquiry must be initiated to examine all of these cases, and find an appropriate remedy for the RCMP's obvious inability to deal with crimes perpetrated by its own officers.

Doris Wrench Eisler from St. Albert. AB, Canada writes: Crazy Canuck is sick and tired of the"rush to judgment" on the RCMP.
I'd like to know of a case where any police or RCMP officer has been found guilty of a crime in the course of his/her duties. Just the opposite is true; no matter how flagrant the "seeming" evidence against them they always come up with some improbable explanation (the Ian Bush case). Yes it is time for civil oversight of law officers and more. I've just heard of a case that had I not listened closely I would have assumed was American. Fifteen-year-old Ashley Smith is sent to jail for throwing crab-apples at a postman. She is shuttled around for four years and then hangs herself in her cell although the prison staff see her by video monitor with the rope around her neck. They thought she was only fooling. She was nineteen and had been imprisoned for four years. What is wrong with our system? The Dziekanski case would have been dead in the water had it not involved a national of a foreign country. For that we owe him all the more because it has drawn attention to the fact that our "democracy" is highly over-rated. 20/11/07

Globe Comments on 'Vacuum' sparks B.C. taser inquiry:

Ken Cowan from Paris, France writes: It's about time!

Hopefully the inquiry will be done independently of the RCMP. Some of the questions that need answering:
a) why did the Polish man allowed to spend 10 hours trying to get out of the airport without any aid form the airport staff; why was his mother told he wasn't on the plane?
b) Why did the police not follow protocols for the use of their tasers? WHY DID THEY LIE TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT THEIR ACTIONS (before the video surfaced to show a totally different chain of events)?
c) It is well known that after being tasered, the person should be put into an upright position in order to help him breathe. Why, instead of doing this, did the RCMP pile on top of him, probably suffocating him to death?
d) When he became inert, why did they not check on him? Why did they not apply first aid techniques while waiting for the emergency health crew to arrive? Their inaction and neglect seem to be other reasons why this man is dead...what excuse do they have for not trying to help him when it was noticed that he was no longer moving or breathing?
e) Why were the names of the policemen who did this not released to the public, the way a civilian person would be?
f) Granted, the cops did not mean to kill him - but they did. Why were they not charged with involuntary homicide? Are they allowed to be above the law just because they are police officers and have "a dangerous job to do"?

janfromthe bruce from Canada writes: Thank goodness we had a independent individual video tape this tradegy, if not, the cover-up would have become the truth. 20/11/07

Dave M from Canada writes: Well I'm glad to see someone in authority has noted the lack of response from the various organizations involved in this debacle. Surely both the RCMP and the airport must know by now if their officials followed proper procedure and I think they could tell us. The Americans release preliminary reports all the time in these sorts of situations. But as usual in Canada, everything will be put off until the situation defuses, reports will be done that are aimed at exoneration not justice, and nobody will be held accountable. Corruption, Canadian style. 20/11/07

Tired Ofitall from toronto, Canada writes: What I find apalling about all of this is that no-one in authority is speaking at all about the lack of charges against the officers involved. They must do prison time! 20/11/07

M P from Ottawa, Canada writes: Canadian Border Services Agency has a lot of explaining to do and have been silent so far, content that it is the RCMP taking all the heat. CBSA allowed this man to wander around the secured immigration arrivals baggage area for 10 hours. Did any one of them get off their butts to try to speak to the man? Did he approach anyone for help earlier and get the big brush off? I want to hear from them, and why they called in the RCMP when the man was in their secure area for almost 10 hours after clearing initial customs. Who spoke to him at customs if the man could not speak English? Someone must have to clear him through the initial screen. There are alot of things, besides the brutal police response that need to be examined here.
BC and Canada can't afford to sweep this under the carpet, with only a short time to go before thousands of people, many of whom won't be speaking english, decend upon the airport for the Vancouver Olympics. This video is in play all over the world and if you listened to Cross Country Checkup on CBC on Sunday, some people have already cancelled trips here because they're afraid this is what happens to people who don't speak english and need help in a foreign country. 20/11/07

E M from Canada writes: Harper and his businessman crony that he placed in charge of the RCMP should resign. After all, it is their 'leadership' that is responsible for the poor training, incompetence and bungling, at several levels that have led to this, and other unnecessary deaths. As a school teacher, I'll be happy to train them in how to use restraint. I've faced agitated teens with weapons, and I don't have a gun, tazer, bulletproof vest, and three other people backing me up. And in the case of a truly dangerous person, I'm not concerned either. As an exparatrooper, I'm sure I can handle that too :-). These are red herring arguments posed by those who believe police can do no wrong (but of course, they do, and should be appropriately punished when they do. It's something called 'accountability' and 'transparency', often mouthed by Harper, but not actually practiced).
And Day, attempting to deflect the outrage with his 'drunk driver' comments, should resign as well. Yes, we are outraged at drunk drivers, Mr. Day, but we don't condone tazering them to death within 30 seconds. These conservative right-wing death squads that can do no wrong need to be quashed immediately. And Vancouver airport security and immigration officials need a good tongue lashing, retraining, etc. as well, evidentally. As someone who speaks several languages, I'm appalled that they didn't immediately contact someone who could speak his language, or at the very least, ask him for his passport. Complete, utter, incompetence by multiple individuals, at multiple levels, in multiple systems. If I had the chance, I'd be cleaning house, so to speak. And responsibility starts at the top. 20/11/07

Lalo Lad from Toronto, Canada writes: hmmm M Sharp hasn't woken up yet. 20/11/07

never neverland from Germany writes: Sadly this is going to be another issue for the RCMP to deal with, namely uneducated public running on emotions, and if the truth does come out, that this individual was perhaps mentally not right, or had anger issues, spent time in jail,was an alcoholic...but in canada people have time to waist on these things, no wonder the country is going down hill fast. 20/11/07

John Williams from Ajax, Canada writes: We need a deep investigation into the RCMP, as they are the lethal actors. There is something profoundly wrong with the RCMP, from top to bottom. Their spokesmen were clearly told by superiors to put out false information to protect the officers on the ground. So its a deep rot. Also, now the RCMP is whining as some kid threw an egg at a car? Are they serious? The RCMP spokesmen feel its ok to criticize someone throwing an egg, yet he will not criticize 4 officers who brutally attacked and caused the death of an unarmed citizen who anyone could see was having a serious mental health episode? Why doesn't he criticize the RCMP for not doing CPR, for not getting a translator? For not asking any questions? For putting out false information? The RCMP seem to consider themselves not only Above The Law, but above even being criticized, or above telling the truth. As anyone who studies these things knows, Power Corrupts. So its clear that since the RCMP has no one with any real power to investigate them, over time they have become more and more corrupt and simply exist to defend their own people, at all costs. After all, any RCMP officer who comes out against another officer would be classified a traitor. So the system becomes corrupt. Also, the dynamics of the Stanford Prison Experiment are clearly at play. You give young men weapons, full gear, Tasers, and immediately that Power goes to their head, and they start acting out. The problem is that their superiors have a culture of a "protection racket" for their own "brothers in arms" and thus cover-up any and all problems, until the corruption spirals out of control. The problem is that who has the power to police the RCMP? They cannot be allowed to self-police, as that is a COMPLETELY corrupt process. There needs to be independent Citizen boards to investigate and control the RCMP, that cannot be corrupted by threats, intimidation, violence, dirty money, or anything else. Who will control the RCMP? 20/11/07

Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: Will such a "vacuum" actually be eliminated by holding such an inquiry?

Will an inquiry still be necessary if people tell what they know? 20/11/07

Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Finally, a leader steps up to represent the public. I hope the inquiry determines: 1. who should use tasers and when and for what precise purpose - defence, attack, because its easier than talking, on unarmed people? 2. whether multiple tasers zaps are as deadly as recent deaths indicate 3. whether restraining someone who has been tasered is deadly 4. whether tasering someone who is distraught is deadly 4. that police should never block anyone's airway 5. whether 50,000 volts is too much 6. whether lower voltages for tasers are indicated 7. how airports should handle disoriented travellers 8. whether airports should have multi-language tel. servies, recordings or computer terminals available for non-English and non-French-speaking travellers 9. whether airport security should be on the lookout for distraught travellers 10.whether refreshments and food given to distraught travellers would calm them down and avoid an incident, when and how this should be done 11. how many persons have been killed by police in recent years and under what circumstances 12. whether police decisions when using tasers have been ill-advised 13. the training police receive and should receive on taser use 14. paperwork required whenever a taser is fired 15. whether taser videos should be required 16. that B.C. requires an independent civilian investigative service to attend any incident where a person dies 17. that police cannot investigate themselves 18. to create a civilian process for receiving evidence from the public 19. that any civilian video tapes be uploaded or copied and returned to civilians at once And many more. 20/11/07

never neverland from Germany writes: I t is interesting to follow the story, especially as people chose to ignore facts... 20/11/07

Mikey Mike from Canada writes: I just wanted to note that never neverlands from Germany's comment suggesting that it is a "waist" of time to have an inquiry appears to advocate never questioning authority. Being German, he would know all about that as evidenced by WWI and WWII 20/11/07

John Williams from Ajax, Canada writes: Also, in countries with a corrupt Police State, human rights groups are getting tiny digital movie cell phones to activists, who can film the corrupt police activities, and try to stop them like that. Its clear we need something like that now in Canada. An RCMP Watch, massive video surveillance of their activities. Also, the Police cameras in cities need to be taken OUT OF THE HANDS of the cops, as you will see the tapes "go blank" if an officer is found on the tape acting illegally. Also, police have to be forced to stop taking "freebies" like free meals, drinks, haircuts, and everything else. This makes them feel they are "above the law" and sets up local Protection Rackets where the cops hang out at places that give them Free Stuff. Make it ILLEGAL for all cops to accept ANY GIFTS, no free meals. This will cut back on that base-level of corruption. Its really really bad, many barbers complain that cops "expect" a free haircut, and they are always trying to scam free stuff. That is corruption. What do they do when 3 cops find $50,000 in cash in a drug bust, when they spend 10 minutes trying to get a haircut for 50% off, or free? We need powerful citizen oversight of the RCMP and of the police that cannot be corrupted by their powers. The police and RCMP, and their unions, have WAY TOO MUCH POWER. They are corrupting our society. All power needs a countervailing power to balance it out. We need police to stop the criminals, but we also need to strictly control the police as well. Otherwise they will become more and more corrupt as time goes on. The RCMP have way too much power, way too much secrecy, way too much money...they truly are operating above the law now, and this is just the tip ofthe iceberg, due to a videotape. If there was no video, this would be just another dead "criminal", and the RCMP lies would stand. 20/11/07

Russ Kehoe from Canada writes: Issue the RCMP officers Baseball bats. then they can start swinging as soon as they arrive on the scene. I love this latest incident - they maced, tasered, and batoned a Canadian. Official RCMP issued Baseball bats would make such take downs easier. 20/11/07

Kathy H from Canada writes: Finally Premier Campbell is showing the leadership that the federal government's official spokesperson, S Day, has failed to provide. 20/11/07

mondo pinion from Canada writes: Thugs with power. Thugs who break human rights law and are not punished -- not only in this case, but also at the deliberate command of their rulers, as they did for Chretien in Vancouver during the World Trade meetings. And when we demand accountability, we are given only smooth double-talking bosses who defend themselves instead of defending Canada.

We are losing faith in our police because they do not serve us as they should. Citizens sniped police during the Watts riots, because they were viewed as the soldiers of an enemy power. Do we really want to go there? Canadians are peaceful, but at heart they are much tougher than the people of Watts.

The police and their bosses, in their callous disregard of the public good, are undermining everything that makes Canada a worthy country. This is about a lot more than four out-of-control goons in uniform in one heartless airport. This is about fascism and technopoly vs. human rights and accountability. This is about Canada. It is about the world our children will inherit. 20/11/07

C K from Toronto, Canada writes: I find it rather interesting that they have yet to name the four officers involved in this incident - or have I just missed something? When we will find out WHO exactly is involved - everyone keeps saying the RCMP officers, well, they have names - who are they? Not every RCMP employee is represented by these thugs, so name them and bring everything to light. 20/11/07

L G from Calgary, Canada writes: When the RCMP were allowed to white wash shooting Ian Bush in the head, further tragedies where entirely predictable. Facts of that case were officers left the station leaving Bush and the arresting officer alone. Ian Bush was interrogated without the interrogation camera being turned on leaving only the officer's account of what happened. This time video tapping the incident was not up to the discretion of the RCMP and the public got to see first hand their "finest" in action.

Best comment so far was in yesterday's Globe letters to the editor section. Let's see one Mountie responds to a call in the NWT where guns and alcohol are rampant and it takes four RCMP officers to subdue a man in a secure area of the airport? Outcome dead Mountie in NWT, dead man in airport. Reverse the number of responders and everyone comes out alive. 20/11/07

Ob Server from Canada writes: The RCMP has lost all credibility. If we did not have access to the video tape of what amounts to the manslaughter of Robert Dziekanski, they would have had us believe the lies that they started out with before we knew about or saw the video. This is the lowest a police force can sink, lying to it's civilian masters and the public that supports it. Robert Dziekanski was murdered at the Vancouver airport and there has to be consequences for that...there also has to be a better process for dealing with such situations....period. Margaret Wendt in the G&M today was exactly right. Canadians should not settle for less. 20/11/07

brm 2000 from HOGTOWN, Canada writes: The RCMP = Headless Horseman 20/11/07

Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: C K from Toronto, Canada writes:

" Not every RCMP employee is represented by these thugs, so name them and bring everything to light."

Probably the most intelligent remark I've read since this began.

E M from Canada writes:

" These conservative right-wing death squads that can do no wrong need to be quashed immediately."

Yes - throughout history there has never been such a thing as left-wing death squads, hasn't there? Just left wing peace, love and group hug squads. 20/11/07

Action Jackson from Canada writes: never neverland from Germany writes: "Sadly this is going to be another issue for the RCMP to deal with, namely uneducated public running on emotions..."

No, people on just these G & M threads have calmly, rationally detailed the many, many reasons why the RCMP are to blame (see e.g. the 1st comment in this thread). If you haven't got it yet, then you're just in love with power and violence. 20/11/07

David Wilson, from Niteroi, Brazil writes: What can be said is that Gordon Campbell and Wally Opal are better politicians than, say, William (Bill) Elliot - that is hardly a surprise is it? But what is reported here seems to me nothing more than weasel-words - they are "launching a full-scale inquiry" but portions "may be delayed in deference to the continuing homicide investigation." So it amounts to nothing. Remember that Wally Oppal did nothing whatsoever in the case of Ian Bush - but hey! that's not a surprise either is it? - there was no video! What is really bothering them is that the public are confronting the RCMP on the street and asking ugly questions mano-a-mano ('mano' is spanish for 'brother'), so, brother to brother ... and apparently some eggs have been thrown. Eggs are not a biggie in a world where car-bombs are often used instead; but in the heart of oh-so-complacent Canada they are startling. What these knuckleheads should do is get to the root of it - Zaccardelli was not a stray rogue, he was the epitome, the anti-paragon if you will, of what the RCMP has become - a goon squad. Elliot had a chance to sweep clean but didn't take it; his own weasel-words on the subject of Robert Dziekanski's death show you clearly where he is coming from (you can read them on the RCMP site) - he is pathetic. Can you say 'balls' in a message to the Globe? Let's try it. If any Canadian politician had the balls to stand up and say, "Arrest the four RCMP who did this deed, and charge them with manslaughter; and charge the RCMP media person, this Pierre Lemaitre liar (and the superiors who ordered him to do it), with obstruction of Justice." Now there would be a man or woman who would earn our respect. But alas alack there are none such. Sheep are the typical 'ideal' animal (in the Bible), said Northrop Frye, "due to the fact that, being stupid, affectionate, gregarious, and easily stampeded, the societies formed by sheep are most like human ones." (Anatomy of Criticism). 20/11/07

John Williams from Ajax, Canada writes: one other thing, notice how the RCMP is so concerned about the "safety" of the officers who killed that guy, that they reassigned them for their own safety? This is what the RCMP is saying. Notice the perversity? Now the RCMP is afraid of the general public criticizing them verbally? They are above criticism? One wonders what might happen if a "sting" was set up to test the RCMP. Some citizen could approach them and calmly verbally criticize their behaviors, and see their response on a hidden camera. Would the RCMP immediately attack the citizen and arrest them with maximum brutal force? If so, the RCMP has crossed the line into a Police State mentality, where they are above the law, and also above criticism from the citizens, and oversight from democracy and our country. We can't trust the guys like Stephen Harper for this, as the RCMP protect his life 24/7, so the PM and those in power will always HAVE to support the Police State mentality. We need some journalists to do some "stings" of the RCMP, when it comes to cash from drug money, etc. But as soon as someone did this to the RCMP, then your life is over, as the RCMP has the power to ruin any persons life, or worse, and get away with it. Its very dangerous. 20/11/07

earl pearl from Canada writes: wa wa wa, the bleeding hearts are up and at the keyboards.

RCMP officers doing time in jail? That's a good one. LOL.

Harper involved? That's even better?

A waste of taxpayers money is leadership? Delusion.

Have we seen a coronor's report , when will we get autopsy results that will show the Taser did not cause this guy's death.

when will someone stand up and tell the truth , that this guy was throwing computer equipment around, creeping everyone out with his profuse perspiring and eratic behaviour, and doing it in an Airport of all places.

I realize we're the land of public inquiries and zero personal responsibility but we're going off the deep end here.
Yet again.

Thomas Price from Whitefish, Canada writes: One has to wonder, if they hadn't had a Taser would they have shot him instead? Personally I would prefer a wound from a bullet over death by Taser. I must admit though that collateral damage from bullets is eliminated with the Taser. I see we also have a new syndrome to explain his death unrelated to Tasers so I guess the Taser is better. It would be interesting to see how many deaths by police gunfire there have been in comparison to Taser deaths over the last couple of years. However, all of this is elementary, we will never know what the real reasons were due to secrecy for reasons of national security. They just haven't used this ace-in-the-hole yet.

The Skipper from Canada writes: If there wasn't this revealing video there would have been a 'cover-up.'

Ob Server from Canada writes: That video is the most disturbing and damning piece of evidence that this country has ever seen in regards to misconduct by public officials, namely the RCMP. Yes, the CBSA and the Vancouver airport authority showed their incompetence but Robert died at the hands of those who are paid to protect us and they watched him lie there and die after tasering him, without any medical calls for help. This is not what Canada is, this is a National disgrace that needs to be corrected and fast or we are all in big trouble.

Mark Copeland from London, United Kingdom writes: Your cops are all trigger happy morons and below average intelligence . What a bunch of cowards , there were more than enough officers to tackle this one person . The Canadian police are worse than the American police.

Mark (German living in England lived in Canada for 5 years)
p.s. Canadian people very nice & helpful , obviously expect police & workers at Vancouver Airport.

Crusty Curmudgeon from Ottawa, Canada writes:
To E M from Canada :

You have a gone a little over the top yourself.

You can complain about the RCMP -- valid -- but blaming this on the lack of training which in turn was caused by someone who was installed as commissioner a year ago? -- please -- give it a rest.

Personally I am more upset over the protestors being pepper sprayed by the RCMP during the reign of Johnny 'kiss my golf balls' Cretin. Not to mention Johnny Boy's breaking the jaw of a protestor on parliament hill -- and hearing nothing of it later.

You LIEberal guppies have to provide more a balanced approach!!!

Lord Cross of Blacks Harbour from New Brunswick, Canada writes: David Wilson from Niteroi, Brazil writes: 20/11/07 at 7:19 AM EST

You’ve captured the essence, IN SPADES! Now, if the new ‘pretend security minister’ would do a SHAKEDOWN on another pet peeve of mine: What happened at Mayerthorpe?

The RCMP conducted an internal investigation immediately AFTER the Mayerthorpe tragedy. I have seen NO REPORT/DISCUSSION SINCE.

Leo Johnston, 32, was gunned down along with fellow Mounties Peter Schiemann, 25, Brock Myrol, 29, and Anthony Gordon, 28, by cop hater James Roszko at his Mayerthorpe-area farm on March 3, 2005, in the worst loss of life in modern RCMP history.

L G from Calgary, Canada writes: Does anyone remember APEC? The video showed clearly the RCMP officer 'hughie' issuing an order to move back and clear the street and then immediately firing his mace on the crowd?

What is it with all you people who are against having the RCMP answer for their actions? That is what people are demanding answers, not the silence we are receiving. Are you suggesting the conduct of the police can never be questioned? Did you see the video? Are you telling me that four officers can't take down a man who raises his arms and backs away as they approach? Four officers don't know how to take down one unarmed man???

Remember in the Ian Bush case the officer who shot him in the back of the head had months to prepare himself before he gave his statement as to what had happened. You try shooting someone and telling the please you are too upset to talk about it for months, let alone days and see how far you get. This set the standard for review of the RCMP's conduct and until that is changed further 'tragedies' will happen.
Posted 20/11/07 at 7:39 AM EST | Link to Comment
The Real Johnny Canuck from Toronto, Canada writes: This is a test to see if the Globe has given in to the threats of the Taser corporation:

Ban Taser use in Canada immediately.

Was that the offensive part of my last comment. Which did not appear?

The Real Johnny Canuck from Toronto, Canada writes: See this blog for protest locations and times.

http://abbink.blogspot.com/2007/11/upcoming-rallies-for-robert-dziekanski.html

Canada.

Show the world we are a compassionate nation with perhaps some badly trained cops.

I will take my son to the one in Toronto.

Pete Kauchak, Green Tory from Cascadia, Canada writes: As usual - I see simplistic solutions posted here - like a call to ban Tasers. Do you mind telling others here what you intend to replace them with? A good old fashioned take down and beating?

Jim OKeefe from Toronto, Canada writes: I still support Tazers as being an excellent non-leathal weapon ideal for law-enforcement. I also see the need for an inquiry here. The video paints a rather horriffic picture, and many people have lost faith in the police, and I don't mean the bleeding heart pinko commies like EM who never had faith in them to begin with, but real people with real minds. The inquiry needs to establish 2 of three things. 1 - show the public that police are not above the law (actually SIU are involved in every fatality in Toronto, isn't it the same everywhere?), and then 2 - if found guilty of excessive use of force punish the officers or 3 - if found justified exonerate them. The findings and reasons for recomendations need to be made public as well, so the public won't scream that its another cover-up job.

Jim OKeefe from Toronto, Canada writes: I still support Tazers as being an excellent non-leathal weapon ideal for law-enforcement. I also see the need for an inquiry here. The video paints a rather horriffic picture, and many people have lost faith in the police, and I don't mean the bleeding heart pinko commies like EM who never had faith in them to begin with, but real people with real minds. The inquiry needs to establish 2 of three things. 1 - show the public that police are not above the law (actually SIU are involved in every fatality in Toronto, isn't it the same everywhere?), and then 2 - if found guilty of excessive use of force punish the officers or 3 - if found justified exonerate them. The findings and reasons for recomendations need to be made public as well, so the public won't scream that its another cover-up job.

j mackenzie from halifax, Canada writes: This man has a grieving Mother and family, do respect that with your comments!

As deplorable as the crime, is the fact that this newspaper limit comments on the weekend...serious, no freedom of speach....very appalling! Number and length of comments have nothing to do with the G&M! Especially indignant was the weekend article allowing the tasor company to defend themselves!

This is a blight on this Nation and don't think it is not noticed globally....wear the patich flags all over and oh, don't forget the poppies!

D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Some folks on the thread last night were suggesting that Mr. Dziekanski had something in his hand before he got tasered.

I looked at the video here at the Globe 3 or 4 times. I saw nothing. He raised his arms, turned to the police and got tasered. The folks claiming he had a 'weapon' also said the quality of the Globe video may have prevented me from seeing the 'weapon.'

I was flabbergasted by what they were saying. But now I think it was something like deception, misdirection on their part.

Pete Kauchak: Yes, what is the differrence between a good tasering and a good beating? Not much, to me. What about surrounding the guy and getting cuffs on him, with everyone still standing?

The Real Johnny Canuck from Toronto, Canada writes: To the 7:54 post.

I say replace them with policing as carried out before their invention.

Their use is callous, punishing and barbaric, and shames Canada.

Just because somebody invented this device does not make it humane or proper.

Its use has clearly been abused.

Ban it now.

Come up with possible situations it should be used in and train our dysfunctional police forces.

Or ban it outright and forever.

I am okay with that.

Death is a simplistic outcome from its use.

C. M. from London, Canada writes: 'The public deserves answers' Attorney General Oppal .
I like the message this guy is putting out about the current 'vaccuum of information'. We shouldn't have to wait years for at least a basic explaination of why this all happened. Then there is 'Paul Levy, the airport's operations vice-president, said the airport authority has been sharing all the information it has with the public. ' I'd love to know when and where this information is being shared with the public. Anybody out there have any sources ?

dwight steadman from Fort Macleod from Canada writes: The police are not above the law. No matter how difficult or dangerous their job, no matter how much we rely on them to protect us, no matter what sacrifices they may be called to make on the community's behalf. Policing in a democracy is a tough job precisely because the community demands respect for law and order, but AT THE SAME TIME respect for individual rights and freedoms. That is why cops have to be well selected, well trained and well paid. If they screw up they also must be held ACCOUNTABLE. If that assignment is too difficult they should look for work in Zimbabwe or Pakistan.

Rodney Chiasson from Saint John, writes: Unfortunately what you are seeing is the slow decline of the RCMP's ability to keep law and order and their inability to hire and train officers that have any talent or ability to do the job. It is a discraceful to see an officer tazer a private citizen without tying to subdue him. This officer should be charged with manslaughter or at least assault with a deadly weapon. More important is our erosion in the confidence we have in the RCMP's ability to do the jobs that tax payers are paying for, and the politicians inability to make decision on what the outcome should be. Seeing Stockwell Day stumble over the subject is pathetic. Can this guy not do anything that he is being payed for? The process is simple. What once was a police force that demanded respect has turned into a beaucratic, bloated, useless, and now dangerous bunch of thugs that believe that law and order consists of tazering a private citizen because he is yelling and throwing a chair at a window. Remember, there wasnt only 1 cop here, there was 4!!!! Least we forget APEC, Grand Manan (where private citizens had to take matter into their own hands), and Conrad Black to name a few.

True North from Canada writes: TASERS KILL.

While Canada is removing umbrellas because of potential harm from lead paint, taser kill people and the government still allows them to electrocute people.

Where are the airport's security camera tapes?? Passengers couldn't even take a baby bottle onto planes for a time. Surely in this so-called 'post 9-11 world' there are cameras in secure airport areas. If not, it quite clear that these so-called security measures are mere window dressing at the cost of the individual.

The police clearly tried to cover up murder by its own and cannot be trusted.

Lord Cross of Blacks Harbour from New Brunswick, Canada writes: C. M. from London, Canada writes: 08:13

Google source at bottom from another journal.

Paul Levy, the airport authority's operations vice-president, also welcomed the inquiry.

'Everyone's anxious to find out what went wrong and see changes made to prevent this type of tragedy from happening again,' he said.

Levy said the airport authority's review has already turned up procedures that need changing, such as customer service, language and paging services in the secure customs area, and security and camera coverage.

Airport staff paged Dziekanski at his mother's behest, but their call couldn't be heard in the secure baggage area where he was waiting. When nobody at customs could find him, she returned home to Kamloops thinking he had missed his flight.

From: Taser death triggers inquest and apology

Questions:

Are there speakers in the baggage area?

Was Robert paged in Polish?

Pete Kauchak, Green Tory from Cascadia, Canada writes: The Real Johnny Canuck from Toronto, Canada writes:
I say replace them with policing as carried out before their invention.

Their use is callous, punishing and barbaric, and shames Canada.

Actually they have saved many lives by preventing deaths and injuries of policeman and suspects. The problem here is with the device itself and WHEN is it justified to use it. Some people have heart conditions/defects where the taser can be lethal. It's up to manufacturer to ensure it is safe to use under all conditions. However, this does not excuse the RCMP's conduct in this matter . I suggest you research the police's procedure for dealing with violent indivduals prior to the introduction of the taser to see what it was like. It was the reason tasers were adopted to begin - WITH governments' blessings - including municipalities.

Thomas Price from Whitefish, Canada writes: Supporters of use of Tasers. I won't disagree with the potential for use in law enforcement. It should however, be used in the same manner as a gun. They are both 'LETHAL' weapons and should be used accordingly and not used in non-lethal apprehension situations. The newly invented EDS (excited delirium syndrome) as a cause of death is beyond belief. Trust me, if you are zapped with 50,000 volts, you will suffer excited delirium involuntarily. We all know the fear we instill in children about getting zapped with 120 volts so image your reaction being hit with 50,000 volts. Admittedly the 50,000 is very low amperage but in the heat of the moment your mind does not do that kind of reasoning. The immediate involuntary reaction of anyone who is tasered is ample indication what it does to your mental, emotional and physical state. For the CEO of the company that makes them to assert categorically that the taser was not weapon of death is to do so without consideration of the resultant consequences and one has to assume that he is only interested in more sales. The mind is a finely tuned electrical system more sophisticated and sensitive than your computer. Try zapping your computer with 50,000 volts. Not willing to do so? I thought not, but you are willing to zap other humans. Shame on you.

True North from Canada writes: Put automatic video cameras - such as are on cell phones - on every taser and require submission of the accompanying video with every firing of the weapon. This will eliminate abuse and ensure it is only fired in the appropriate situations.

Global Citizen from Canada writes: No wonder citizens are sometimes treated as if they are the enemies of the police force, my personal accounts speak to that!

Harry Wart of Annon from Canada writes: So, before there is even an inquiry there is an apology? Sounds pretty knee jerk for a guy who was not cooperating with the police. Typical though. A man who was not even from this country, disrupts an airport, gets tazed by the police and accidentally dies has more support and memorials then the last two Canadian soldiers, and a young RCMP officer who died defending the very country that doesn't care anyways.

Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: The inquiry should also look at why authorities hide autopsey results for months in cases like this. Hiding the video tape only made the police look bad. Hiding the autopsey results makes the coroner's office look bad as well. The young man who made the video deserves some kind of civilian democracy award for stepping up and being the best citizen.

Citizen Cain from Toronto, Canada writes: We do not know how many lives have been saved.

The CEO of Taser was on CBC radio saying how it could be used even before pepper spray or batons.

We don't need his advice, thanks.

Governments were misled about the Taser.

That is the value of seeing this man die.

That is what a Taser can do.

I believe my eyes, not the American weapon salesman.

Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Will anyone be looking into the police taser death of an Italian citizen in Quebec a month ago?

jeff franklin from Canada writes: L G from Calgary;

'You try shooting a guy,..., see how long you get away with it for'.

Vee Pee Cheney USA shot a fellow Republican Hunter in the face one afternoon awhile back. Didn't give a Statement to a USA Sherrif's Deputy till the next AM.

A Monty Pythonish Lunch/ Hunt comes to mind.

Crazy what being the USA Vee Pee/Draft Exemptee will get ya.

Rob C from 905, Canada writes: This thing will be a wax job. The RCMP will get a tongue lashing behind doors - and absolutely nothing will happen to the officers. This is simply window dressing----('Can I use the taser huh, can I, huh, can I? Should I do it now?' - Pretty scary stuff I would say). How does a weapon that discharges a huge amount of electricity into a person not pose a threat to there heart rate?

Thom as from Canada writes: Political correctness may play a part here. At one time our police officers were hired based partially on their physical ability to face certain circumstances and usually their presence gained them enough respect to defuse many incidents.
Today they hire anyone and give them additional means of force to make up for their lack of physical abilities.
At one time the officers would have handled this case with much more confidence and poise rather than jumping in with tasers.
The video shows no attempt to handle this situation with any confident professionalism.

Lord Cross of Blacks Harbour from New Brunswick, Canada writes: Figures on Taser use based on reports filed by the RCMP

OTTAWA - Number of events reviewed: 606

Dates: March 2002 to March 2005. *Majority from 2004.**

Number of events by province and territory: B.C. 230; Alberta 95; Saskatchewan 152; Manitoba 21; Ontario 1; New Brunswick 9; Nova Scotia 8; P.E.I. 21; Newfoundland and Labrador 27; Northwest Territories 10; Yukon 11; Nunavut 21.

Number of events in which Taser used: 563

Number of events in which Taser unholstered but not used: 43

Number of events in which suspect unarmed: 445*******

Number of events in which suspect armed: 118

(Source: Canadian Press analysis of RCMP Taser use reports)

Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: True North from Canada writes: Put automatic video cameras - such as are on cell phones - on every taser and require submission of the accompanying video with every firing of the weapon. This will eliminate abuse and ensure it is only fired in the appropriate situations.

I also like the suggestion to make the paperwork identical for firing a taser-gun as for having discharged a firearm.
Posted 20/11/07 at 8:52 AM EST | Link to Comment
Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: A full public inquiry is needed of the RCMP. Restructuring is required.

evelyn robinson from Canada writes: Campbell's apology is very badly worded for an apology. Glad to apologize? Nothing to be glad about. He should regret the need to apologize and not an apology is certainly not adequate.
And the new RCMP commisioner's quote citing public misperception is ridiculous and certainly suggests a cover up coming.
This is not the first unarmed person tasered and killed by taser; days later another taser victim died back east.
This is the 17th person in Canada to die after being tasered. Most were unarmed. Denying that the taser is responsible for their deaths is disgusting. I do believe that in a fight; you take the victim as you find them; previous health issues will not get one off the hook if someone dies after a fight.
Why the the police get a 'get out of jail free card'
Water/ sweating is a good conductor of electricity and may make the shock even worse.
Why do we use shock on people and yet rely on tanquillizer darts on animals. Seems to me/ when absolutely necessary/ a tranquillizer dart may be much safer.

Fred Heff from cowtownCalgary, Canada writes: Now they are trying to shift the blame on Dziekanski what they call.'waiting in a security zone syndrome' hypertension or what ever they are calling it, as seen on CBC last night

Get rid of the RCMP and turn it into provinicial pig force. Yes I know that isnt a good term to use but it is what they have become.

Thank you to the egg throwers and save a few for the incomponent airport staff, Paul Levy,Att General and the bonehead who wouldnt make an opology until the premier did. Real gonads there pal.

These people have done a massive injustice to all citizens of Canada

Little Dickie from Beautiful Downtown Port Dover, Canada writes: With all the RCMP problems, why don't the provinces who use the RCMP's services for policing give it up and start their own Provincial Police Service's like Ontario and Quebec. The provinces who use the RCMP services are getting off cheap because the total cost of these services are not totally paid for by the user province...they are being subsidized by federal taxpayers. With a provincial police force there would be more accountability .....you know that their marketing rights for the RCMP 'mounties' are held by Walt Disney Corporation....you can tell that by way they act ...They are all clowns or cartoon characters...have a good day Canada

D. Sadoway from HK, Hong Kong writes: Part of the systemic problem that this 'incident' at Vancouver International Airport seems to highlight is one of jurisdiction. At the airport there would be Airport Security, and Volunteer Commissioners and then Customs Agents (and maybe private security firms) and RCMP. How these various forces hand-off 'problems' to each other seemed to be a contributing factor in this guys death.

A bigger issue might be the increasing divide between an RCMP that handles rural communities in some provinces, highway duties in some places, and urban duties (like the airports or national issues) in other places. In a diverse, multi-cultural country having officers who are clearly aware of different ways of communicating and acting in different situations is critical in life saving/threatening situations.

I don't know what the training regimen is like at the Regina RCMP Training Academy nowadays, but i do know a Chinese Canadian friend who had the brains and the brawn but claimed he could not survive the academy primarily because of the way he was treated due to his ethnic background.

In a diverse society we need an accountable and diverse RCMP force that we can be proud of again, not some good old boys racket that scares the XXXX out our citizens. Taxpayers support this force and they should operate in a transparent and accountable manner just like what we'd expect of any branch/agency of government. This is not a private security firm after all--at least not yet.

D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Perhaps Mr. Campbell said he was 'glad to apologize' because doing so would help him to score political points at the expense of the RCMP.

On the other hand, politicians really don't have very good speaking skills. Still, you'd think they would be able to weigh their words before opening their mouths. Especially seeing that they are politicians!

Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: Little Dickie from Beautiful Downtown Port Dover, Canada writes: With all the RCMP problems, why don't the provinces who use the RCMP's services for policing give it up and start their own Provincial Police Service's like Ontario and Quebec

Surely you mean the OPP and not Quebec, but, case in point, confederation. Ontario & Quebec both operated provincial police before the RCMPs existed.

Harry Wart of Annon from Canada writes: You bunch of sheep love to bash the police...but as soon as the big bad wolf shows up...who do you go crying to? Remember your place, is in the flock.

Machinations ? from Canada writes: 'but in canada people have time to waist on these things, no wonder the country is going down hill fast.'

Germany has the shortest working week of industrialized countries. It's 'waste' by the way. Perhaps you should look to your own before criticizing ours.

Excited delirium, doubtless to be used by the RCMP as an excuse now that drugs or alcohol have been ruled out, is not a defined condition recognized by the Canadian Medical Association. It is used to justify in-custody deaths resulting from Taser use the world over. I hope the inquiry looks at the so-called phenomenon of 'excited delirium' which most doctors consider about as credible as Scientology.

Machinations ? from Canada writes: 'You bunch of sheep love to bash the police...but as soon as the big bad wolf shows up...who do you go crying to? Remember your place, is in the flock.'

Get lost, troll. My countenance would have you cowering like the very sheep you so despise. Try not going off half-cocked and you won't look like such a chump.

Pete Kauchak, Green Tory from Cascadia, Canada writes: Lord Cross of Blacks Harbour from New Brunswick, Canada writes:

Number of events in which suspect unarmed: 445*****

Number of events in which suspect armed: 118

I don't know why the media keeps harping on the fact that most were unarmed. The last time I checked the police didn't have ESP powers. The whole point of the taser was to protect everyone from harm. The police won't necessarily know whether a suspect is armed or not.

bruce weaver from Canada writes: While in absolutely no way absolving the RCMP and the Vancouver Airport Authority would it have been too much for either a). This gentleman to learn a few phrases of English 'i need help' etc. or b). His mother to tell him how to get throught the airport. I did that for my kids when they were just old enough to travel on their own. And when any of us fly to another country I am sure we take the time to learn a few phrases of the local language. Just think, a few words of English could have saved him.

Neil M from Get Real, Canada writes: O grow up Canada!
What do think would have happened if he behaved this way in Warsaw?

Its called 'cause and consequence.' And sad as it may be, his death is a consequence of his irrational and erratic behaviour.

Thank you to the RCMP for securing our airports.

Dana Dana from Canada writes: And how do cops themselves feel about all this? http://forums.blueline.ca/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13581&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=120
I get the sense some of these guys would load us into the boxcars if those were their orders. Most of them are so strongly of the 'us versus them' mentality that all civilians are considered little more than targets in waiting. It's all very well for a government to have a 'law and order' agenda unless that phrase is just used to mask a 'police state' agenda. Which is more likely than not as far as I'm concerned with this coalition of rejects from failed parties we have in power now.

Rob Gilgan from Canada writes: Where is Stockwell Day? Why is the Border Service silent?

Just a Canadian from Canada writes: As per the news article: Attorney-General Wally Oppal said the government was forced to call a public inquiry after it became clear various authorities - including Vancouver airport, the RCMP and Canada Border Services Agency - were not providing useful answers about what went wrong.

Police in England lied when they killed an innocent civilian. Last RCMP commissioner could not remember news about Mehar Arar and plainly lied about it. An innocent civilian in BC was killed in police custody and the officer acquitted of all wrong doing. This time there was a video.

Lets face the facts although I have not seen people express it. Majority of police officers are intoxicated with their own power, comfortable in the knowledge that no one would prosecute them. We do not have a police force where majority of officers are decent law abiding human beings with few bad apples. WE HAVE POLICE FORCE WHERE MAJORITY OF ITS OFFICERS ARE BULLIES AND CONSIDER THEMSELVES ABOVE THE LAW WITH FEW GOOD POLICE OFFICERS.

Anyone who disputes that please show me a traffic violation ticket issued to a police officer.

juice orange from Canada writes: 'Glad to apologize'; Gee thanks Mr.Campbell for those kind sincere words. We're not forcing you apologize, you don't have to do it..... I know you've got more important things to do....

Just a Canadian from Canada writes: Harry Wart of Annon from Canada writes: 'You bunch of sheep love to bash the police...but as soon as the big bad wolf shows up...who do you go crying to? Remember your place, is in the flock. '

Harry, police is paid (very well paid) through my tax dollars to come and protect me when I need. They are public servants. They do not have the right to taser me just because their job is to protect public.

They can resign if they do not like the job and then we can give it to people who really want it and can do the job.

Lord Cross of Blacks Harbour from New Brunswick, Canada writes: Pete Kauchak, Green Tory from Cascadia, Canada writes: 9:08 AM

I don't know why the media keeps harping on the fact that most were unarmed. The last time I checked the police didn't have ESP powers. The whole point of the taser was to protect everyone from harm. The police won't necessarily know whether a suspect is armed or not.

Problem I have, without crediting any ESP trait, is that the four officers misjudged the situation in its entirety. If it was a 'man-alone vs ONE* RCMP constable,' I could perhaps see using the taser as a last resort. The statistical summary *445* does not bear out the attendant circumstances ... The situational background in this instance is clear to most of us. It's a total failure in the annals of competent policing.

Following the incident, RCMP PR, in the person of Sgt. Lemaitre sought to *deliberately mislead* the public about the event. The tape was only returned to Pritchard, after he secured the services of a lawyer. That's why I no longer have any confidence in the RCMP.

*I hope they're going to tell us what transpired in Mayerthorpe soon.

Hans Lucas from Toronto, Canada writes: Rallies in support of Robert Dziekanski and family have been organized (for next Saturday, November 24th, 2007) in Vancouver , Victoria and Toronto . Here’s an overview:

TORONTO: Defend Robert Dziekanski Toronto Queen’s Park Protest Nov 24
Protesting Unreasonable Force/Showing Solidarity with Vancouver BC Protest Nov 24

Date: Saturday, November 24, 2007
Time: 12:00pm - 2:00pm
Location: Queen’s Park
Street : University Avenue
City/Town: Toronto , ON

More info on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6407280731

Vancouver: Protest against RCMP using excessive force on Robert!

Date: Saturday, November 24, 2007
Time: 12:00pm - 3:00pm
Location: Downtown Vancouver, Art Gallery ( Georgia Street side)
City/Town: Vancouver , BC

More info on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=8636840125

VICTORIA: Solidarity and Justice for Robert Dziekanski.
Express your outrage and show supprt for his family through a peaceful demonstration

Date: Saturday, November 24, 2007
Time: 12:00pm - 3:00pm
Location: Legislative Assembly of British Columbia
City/Town: Victoria , BC

More info on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=6187158110

Please show your support!

al goguen from Victoria, B.C, Canada writes: I agree that there should be an investigation. But I would like to know if this 40 yr. old man was well enough to travel alone on a plane. At first he was first referred to as the boy -at 40? - then he had a wife and now his mother said there was no wife. What is going on? Who was supposed to meet him at the airport? What happened after he went through passport control or maybe he didn't.
Lat month just going to San Jose California I spent almost five hours waiting around at the airports - Victoria, Seattle and San Jose. So that's the way it is. I didn't start throwing computers around the room.
Why was he so upset? Was he a not well enough to travel to a strange country alone? I wish someone would look at his life, and maybe we would understand his erratic behavior.

Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: Harry Wart of Annon from Canada writes: You bunch of sheep love to bash the police...but as soon as the big bad wolf shows up...who do you go crying to? Remember your place, is in the flock. ---- There is never going to be a clearer example of abuse of police power. It is clear from the video that Robert was NOT a threat to public safety. The earlier part of the video where you have a woman trying to figure out why is he so confused, but she fails as they can't speak to one another. She has no problem approaching him. She wasn't 'creeped out' as some have suggested. She could see he was in distress. Clearly what the RCMP police did was wrong. There was NO attempt to communicate, it is obvious. They had him surrounded. The people knew he spoke some slavic language (many people kept saying 'he speaks Russian'). A Russian would have probably figured out that he was speaking Polish. The point is they didn't even try. If you listen to them chat before hand, the cops already decided to taser him. Then everything the RCMP did after that was a cover up. They lied about Robert's actions, they tried to keep the video out of public hands, they insist the video is only partial (even though it is a remarkably good view of the incident). Comments like the one above show a complete lack of humanity, and it is clear that they approve of any policy act, including violence and in this case KILLING, someone who wasn't acting 'normal'. This is why we need to have public inquiry on this. To make sure any cop who thinks like this is not allowed on the force, or if they do behave like this, get kicked off the force. The police are there to PROTECT and SERVE the public. They are not above the public scrutiny, unless of course you live in a police state. Unfortunately, some people here think that's not such a bad idea.

Charlie Chuckletrousers from London, Ontario from Canada writes: Machinations: 'Excited delirium, doubtless to be used by the RCMP as an excuse now that drugs or alcohol have been ruled out, is not a defined condition recognized by the Canadian Medical Association. It is used to justify in-custody deaths resulting from Taser use the world over'

I think what will eventually be found is that tasers are dangerous and potentially lethal when used on anyone who has an elevated heart rate or high blood levels of adrenalin or something like that, no matter whether triggered by drug use or mental distress. Unfortunately that state represents many of the people who come into confrontation with the police. I doubt that the human testing conducted by the Taser Corporation could simulate these conditions in the voluntary test subjects when they developed this device.

Dominik B from Canada writes: Hans Lucas from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Rallies in support of Robert Dziekanski and family have been organized.' You have got to be kidding me.

Just a Canadian from Canada writes: To al goguen from Victoria, B.C, Canada.

Al, to support your theory, lets assume that this man was mentally disturbed. The kind we see occasionally on the streets. So now should this mentally distrubed man be tasered by two polce officers when there were four police officers who could have easily constrained him?

It is a case of lazy police officers happy with their bullying powers. Bunch of thugs who lie and breal law on a daily basis.

Linda Dial from Canada writes: You are so right, earl pearl, it wasn't the taser that killed the poor man, it was the 4 Mounties that piled on top of him rugby style AFTER they tasered him. If the taser is so effective, then why the post-taser tackle? If 4 Mounties tackling were sufficient force, then why use the taser? The 4 Mounties should be charged with manslaughter just as any other citizen would be in similar circumstances.

John Williams from Ajax, Canada writes: That Blueline.ca information is disturbing. That is a good name for it...the BLUE LINE. That means cops protect cops first, doesn't matter if the cop kills someone by accident or on purpose, you always defend the cop. Its a 'blueline'. But for the RCMP, its a 'redline'.

Maybe they should put tiny camera's on all police. but they would find a way around it, rip it off and pretend there was a struggle, etc.

Remember in toronto where the police went to a huge demonstration for their union, and many of them carried their GUNS? they should have all been arrested by the army, and charged, and fired. NOthing happened. NOTHING. The cops organized and went to a protest in their civillian clothes, many with GUNS and nothing happened. If anyone else did that, they would be SHOT DEAD.

We have been far too liberal with the police, and it has backfired. Its time for REAL civilian oversight, or Amnesty Int and civil right groups have to do it.

Just a Canadian from Canada writes: On CNN this morning there was a news segment on use of tasers since last week alone three individuals died (all in their twenties) after being tasered.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/19/taser.death/index.html?iref=newssearch

Joe Liberali from Canada writes: 'the RCMP reporting over the weekend that several of its officers in the Lower Mainland have been accosted by members of the public, including one incident in which a police cruiser was pelted with eggs.'

Is this even worth reporting by them? They barely want to acknowledge far more serious crimes that they commit!

Keep up the good work folks.

Stinch d from toronto, Canada writes: The fact is, these RCMP officers were just plain lazy when it came to taking down this poor man. If they had just tried to restrain him using their obvious size/weight/number advantage, this may have had a different outcome. People demanding they be charged with manslaughter are being ridiculous, though - they used a sanctioned (however moronic it is) method for restraining individuals - to blame them for doing what they were trained to do is a bit too simplistic.
That said, I very much sympathize with the victim on another level. Of all the airports in Canada (and I travel several times per month, all over the country), YVR is easily staffed with the worst, most poorly trained, apathetic, moronic individuals in the history of air travel - and I'm from TORONTO! The fact that he lost it after being red-tape tortured for 10 hrs isn't surprising.

P Martin from St. John's, NL, Canada writes: There are many questions about this that will just be covered up. No surprise that until the tape was released there were lies and cover-ups already starting. I have yet to hear of any incidence like this actually showing wrongdoing by the police and charges laid.

True North from Canada writes: Missing key statistic: total number of police taser discharges / number of taser-related fatalities = probability of being killed by a taser.

So far the standard police response on the science of tasers has amounted to 'look, I have been hit by one and I am still standing aren't I? so they must be fine.' (The police are hit with one discharge only in this training exposure)

Currently, there are 18 reported taser related deaths that the public is aware of so at, arbitrarily, 1800 taser firings, a person stands a 1-in-100 chance of being killed by the police. What is the total count of police taser firings? If this number is unknown, it further demonstrates the the police's lack of concern for public safety and irresponsible handling of this lethal weapon.

All police taser discharges must reported and logged publically as police gun firings are.

Tasers must have automatic video cameras - such as are on cell phones - and the respective video of the weapon's firing must accompany the firing report for each weapon.

The police have demonstrated that the public cannot trust them to use this lethal weapon responsibly.

Erik D. from Canada writes: Good to see Stockwell Day is on the job. NOT.

He's in charge of the RCMP and the Border Service, but he hasn't done anything yet. I guess either Harper hasn't given him his marching orders, so he's in a holding pattern or the new strategy of the New Government of Canada must be to stick their head in the sand and hope the issue goes away. Sad, really sad.

Three things need to be answered:

a) why was he left unattented for 10 hours? Security must indeed be lax.
b) when they knew he coudn't speak english, why didn't they find someone who could speak Polish? I mean they must of known he was from Poland...or else we have even more security issues to deal with.
c) his mother was also there for hours, why didn't anyone connect the two obvious dots...

Just a Canadian from Canada writes: To John Williams from Ajax, Canada.

You are absolutely right on the money.

There is no accountability with the police force. The same Toronto police had a bully as their union president who police officers loved as that suited their purpose.

This would not be tolerated anywhere in the world except perhaps in Pakistan.

Mark Copeland from United Kingdom writes: Neil M from Get Real - Yes thanks for securing airports against crazed Eastern Europeans . Let's hope that the RCMP never has to tackle any real threats in the airport , that's a job for real professionals.

Harry Wart of Annon – Yes we need the police to fill out a form when we’ve been robbed for insurance purposes , I find that’s all there good for . I prefer to sort out my own issued without having to waist my time trying to get cops to do things.

Just a Canadian from Canada writes: to: Dead Jerry from Canada. Let me guess. You are a relative to a police officer who is a born bully. Shame on you and likes of you.

Dead Jerry from Canada writes: Just a Canadian from Canada writes: to: Dead Jerry from Canada. Let me guess. You are a relative to a police officer who is a born bully. Shame on you and likes of you.

No. I respect the law. And you know what? I've never been tazered. That's the key here. Follow the law (the big ones, like not going bananas in an airport) and you stand a really good chance of not being tazered.

Laura Labelle from Ladysmith, Canada writes: Time to stock up on eggs.... there is enough left on Campbell's and Day's face for all BC'ers to go around.

I wrote Day, and demanded he appoint a special prosecutor who could lay charges against the 4 goons - nothing else will put these guys in jail the way you or I would be having committed manslaughter. Write Wally Oppal, I did.

Public inquiries are useless, and Campbell and Day know it. We'll never even know these cops names. If the RCMP would accept responsibility, people wouldn't be so mad. The RCMP simply goes on in the manner that they are above the law. They are not, and let's prove it. There is no such thing as 'excited delirium' - oh wait, yes there it, it's what cops and feds call a death by taser.

True North from Canada writes: According to Lord Black's post, the RCMP has reported 563 taser weapon firings so statistically you stand, at best, a 1-in-563 chance of dying from police taser discharge.

We pull dangerous products and their use in public for far less lethal odds than that.

Lawrence Koch from Canada writes: Something is wrong if someone is in a secure area for 8 hours while airport personnel talk about him as if he's not really there and make minimal effort to communicate with him. The unquestioned assumption that he spoke Russian and the failure to do much of anything to assist him are very telling of the attitudes at work.

Old Edmonton Man from Edmonton, Canada writes: The fact that he was processed at the Immigration and Customs indicates there is at least one person there speaks Polish. Where is that person when he/she was needed. Taking long coffe breaks?

Dana Dana from Canada writes: Dead Jerry would enjoy herding people into boxcars if given the chance. Stockboy should hire him.

Lawrence Koch from Canada writes: David Wilson from Niteroi, Brazil writes: What is really bothering them is that the public are confronting the RCMP on the street and asking ugly questions mano-a-mano ('mano' is spanish for 'brother'), so, brother to brother

No, 'mano' means 'hand'. 'Mano a mano' is 'hand-to-hand'. 'Hermano' is the word for 'brother'.

Just a Canadian from Canada writes: To Dead Jerry from Canada.

I travel every week by air and see many agitated travellers. One of them got tasered and died recently in US as well.

As for your respecting the law, I find it amazing that you write 'Some fat Polish dude' about a deceased person. Obviously someone who cannot even respect a dead person has all the qualifications being law abiding citizen. Your degrading comments show your racial attitude towards Poles (I am not of Polish origin).

Either that or you are a police officer, never mind being relative to one. No wonder you never got tasered.

Bill Clinton from Canada writes: I think you guys need to give it up. The RCMP were simply doing their job and if they felt threatened then they have every right to taser him. On top of this, do you honestly think any officer had the intent of killing the man? They were simply trying to doing their jobs in a professional way. Why don't you look at all the other problems we have in our country? This doesn't even compare the child abuse, animal cruelty, and murders. By the way, posting comment after comment on here isn't doing a thing. The guys will get off free anyway so whats the point.

True North from Canada writes: Dead Jerry - you won't get tasered to death in Poland as, according to the news, Poland will now likely ban the weapon altogether.

I also love some posters here who claim that the victim was at fault and killed by police for simply not bothering to learn the English language. Tell that to the rest of the world who are coming to the very same airport for the Winter Olympics.

True North from Canada writes: The victim was trapped in a secure area for 10 hours and no one working there even knew what language he spoke??

Shallows Of Game. from writes: A MSN site for friends of the family of the deceased: (copy-paste to your browswer)

http://groups.msn.com/FriendsofZofiaCisowskiRobertDziekanski

Dana Dana from Canada writes: I've lost my pride in Canada under the Harperites. They seem bound and determined to put us into lock step with the US on so many issues that on the world stage the two countries are becoming undistinguishable one from the other. The US claims the right to torture - Canada turns over prisoners for torture. The US does absolutely nothing about global warming - Canada matches them. The US starts ramping up for war with Iran - Canada makes equally belligerent noises. A little more time and there will be nothing left of our hard won reputation as an honest broker or trustworthy middle power. We'll just be a satellite of the US as far as the rest of the world is concerned and treated as such by the new emerging superpowers. That's what Harper and Day and the left over old reformers have always wanted. Incredible that we elected to govern us a bunch of left over politicians we rejected when they were from political parties we rejected as too inept or ideological yet when they changed their name we got fooled into thinking they were somehow different than they'd always been. More fool we.

Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ......from the tenor of some of the postings here, it seems that the Mounties - the vast majority of whom and honest, conscientious, hard-working individuals, trying to do a good job under oftimes tough conditions - are still the objects of much scorn and derision...we think that some of this venom should be directed at the top brass of the RCMP and politicians like Aquaboy Stockwell for their witholding of the salient facts from the public pending either a cover-up of a thorough sanitization....... this erosion of support for those who stand in the way between us and anarchy really concerns us.....

Dead Jerry from Canada writes: Just a Canadian from Canada writes: As for your respecting the law, I find it amazing that you write 'Some fat Polish dude' about a deceased person. Obviously someone who cannot even respect a dead person has all the qualifications being law abiding citizen. Your degrading comments show your racial attitude towards Poles (I am not of Polish origin).

Because I don't respect some toad who came to my country, freaked out on people doing their job (poorly I suppose), threw things around, and got tazered to death I don't respect the law? That's a leap of 'logic'. I could care less if he was Polish, Spanish, black, red or or paisley print. Respect the law and you will not get zapped. Run afoul of the law, and you may. And you may die. Seems like I have pointed out a great way to not get tazered to death. You're welcome.
Posted 20/11/07 at 10:30 AM EST | Link to Comment
Dead Jerry from Canada writes: Dana Dana from Canada writes: I've lost my pride in Canada under the Harperites.

Planes leave every hour. Bye bye!

D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Old Edmonton Man wrote:

'The fact that he was processed at the Immigration and Customs indicates there is at least one person there speaks Polish.'

This indicates to me that there is more yet to this story. And Mr. Day isn't talking.

But the presence of an agent who spoke Polish might not have prevented the problem. Mr. Dziekanski would have had to ask the right questions of the agent to learn that he could get out of the secure zone and he would have still been concerned about not being able to meet his mother. Maybe there was no agent who spoke Polish, but I don't think sign language (the clumsy type) works at customs.

Dead Jerry from Canada writes: True North from Canada writes: Dead Jerry - you won't get tasered to death in Poland as, according to the news, Poland will now likely ban the weapon altogether.

Yeah, I am sure they have much more 'effective' means of subduing nutcases who go nuts.

Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ...we think that the buck stops in several places in this affair.....

Little Dickie from Beautiful Downtown Port Dover, Canada writes: And Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: Little Dickie from Beautiful Downtown Port Dover, Canada writes: With all the RCMP problems, why don't the provinces who use the RCMP's services for policing give it up and start their own Provincial Police Service's like Ontario and Quebec

'Surely you mean the OPP and not Quebec, but, case in point, confederation. Ontario & Quebec both operated provincial police before the RCMPs existed.'

Rollo, you haven't got a clue. The OPP was formed in 1909..... the RCMP was formed as the NWMP by Canada's first Prime Minister at about 1874. And what do you meen, 'not Quebec' get real. Quebec has it's own provincial police. It was created on May 1st, 1870 the Quebec provincial government created the Police provinciale du Québec

Tiu Leek from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Dead Jerry: No. I respect the law. And you know what? I've never been tazered. '

B.S, Jerry. You respect power, not the law. If you actually did have any respect for the law, you couldn't possibly cops who break it. By lying about a criminal matter, for example.

And you know why you're this way, Jerry? Because deep down inside, you're a coward. Because it's all about you, and to hell with everyone else.

Douglas Ineson from writes: Re:Zando Lee It would nice if at least 1 Mountie would stand up for the Truth

M j from Canada writes: Zando Lee, 'stand between us and anarchy'? Are you nuts? Stop watching those Mad Max movies and come out of the basement. The rise of the police state (internationally, not just here in North America) is inviting anarchy upon us. The RCMP are more accurately soldiers seconded to civil peace keeping tasks than police officers. They are a laughably inept force whose roots are paramilitary, not police. They were similarly incompetent when they handled national security before CSIS, hence their demotion to our nationally franchised rent-a-cops. They are not brave volunteers ; they are paid to do a sometimes dangerous job that they requested. We owe them nothing except our expectations of sustained flawless performance - and our quick discipline should they fail us. Not unlike the way any company treat its employees. The RCMP have no right to cover-up or retreat into the typical silence of police forces facing censure. As a side note, no armed public employee should be allowed to unionize, most especially any sort of police force. The influence of such unions combined with the weighty authority of the gun is dangerous and destabilizing to any peaceful democratic nation. Who watches the watchmen?

D. Hall from Winnipeg, Canada writes: I just want to repeat a recommendation from an earlier posting to read what some police think about the incident. It is some form of police forum:

http://forums.blueline.ca/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13581&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=120

I followed the link and was seriously depressed and a bit frightened by what I read. It certainly doesn't bode well for any improvement in Canada's policing.

Take a look.

D Brown from Canada writes: Zando Lee - If the RCMP were capable of cleaning it's own act up you wouldn't be hearing all the moaning and bickering you are hearing. Maybe the rank and file should do some cleaning from within.

D Brown from Canada writes: The RCMP are just the northern wing of the US Army. They are used by the Americans to round up trouble some Canadians, to either have them jailed here or send south for jail time. Look at the incident in Montebello Quebec, where the Surette du Quebec were used to instigate a riot on the CUPE line. The RCMP and US Army were responsible for security at this even, and then blame the Quebec police force and a couple rogue cops for this event. I'm getting sick of the 'bad apples' excuse, the whole tree is starting to STINK!

Rex the Dog from Canada writes: Watching TV last night I heard Mr. Harper say it was not his place to get involved in RCMP business. If I remember correctly wasn't it Mr. Harper who picked and placed the new head of the RCMP? If that isn't getting involved I don't know what is. What Mr. Harper should have said is ' I don't get involved in any business where I have to make decisions that might upset my supporters'. Mr. Harper for the people? Mr. Harper for himself.

The Iconoclast from Canada writes: how the RCMP turns from Hero to Zero:
- Air India debacle
- Irar affair
- RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli resignation
- Taser incident

James Young from Brantford, Canada writes: There has been too many heavy-handed actions by police throughout the country in recent years. The SIU investigations are a total farce, and everybody knows this.

Now the public has a proven case of police, ignorance, stupidy , and incompetence. I suspect much of the comments stem from past knowledge of perceived misconduct, where most people believed were a cover-up..

This Vancouver shock is a wake-up call for all Police Forces to clean -up their act.

Mr Elliott of the RCMP is still dithering. A leader would have banned Taser use until further notice. Stockwell Day is hiding. Harper hasn't given any instructions.

Welcome to Canada.
Durgan.

Hound Dog from Canada, Canada writes: As the facts surface about this incident, it has become clearer that the RCMP is not following their own rules and guidelines with respect to use of non lethal weapons such as the TASER. In Canada you have a 1 in 30 chance of dying from a TASER as borne out by the statistics from the RCMP. Furthermore, in more than 80% of the cases the use of TASERS was in complete violation of the RCMP rules and guidelines of TASERS! What is most concerning is that half of the TASER related deaths have occurred in BC where statistically BC is slightly more than 10% of Canadian population. This suggests to me that at least in BC, there is another set of unofficial rules and guidelines that the RCMP use, resulting in the overuse of TASERs in many situations, the illegal use of TASERs on unarmed citizens and the very high probability of innocent people dying from the use of TASERs especially in BC. Now we understand why the BC RCMP have called in the Ontario police because this issue is lot bigger than the death of one innocent person. We are looking at the tip of the iceberg of a very serious breakdown of policing and justice at least in BC. This also explains why numerous bodies have called for public inquiries since I believe many knew that this problem has existed for long while and now given the very negative public backlash over this incident, it is now time to clean ranks in the BC RCMP!

jim in London from London, Canada writes: This looked a lot like murder-these morons should be treated as murderers- charged immediately taken off the payrole and hopefully placed in jail as soon as possible

Rex the Dog from Canada writes: If you are not pleased with the way the RCMP conduct themselves speak up and tell them. The last time I looked we as Canadian citizens have the right to speak our minds. If you have to take a Taser in the heart as a consequence, so be it.

mike sty from Canada writes:
I read the BC police are stocking up on tasers, 70 ordered.

Must be in preparation for the olympics.

Beware all tourists/foreigners to Canada,....

BC police training with rcmp death squad.

And any video is a instant taser.

rcmp don't want the truth.

Pete Kauchak, Green Tory from Cascadia, Canada writes: D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes:
Pete Kauchak: Yes, what is the differrence between a good tasering and a good beating? Not much, to me. What about surrounding the guy and getting cuffs on him, with everyone still standing?

You forgot you need another 2 police officers to do that. Plus how do you know the guy doesn't have a harness full of explosives around his chest?

Organza B from Canada writes: 'An RCMP officer is suing Taser International Inc., its Canadian distributor....Dan Husband is alleging negligence and seeking unspecified exemplary, punitive and aggravated damages...' This quote is from The National Post.
Now doesn't it mark it clearly how dangerous, a Taser is? The leathal weapon has killed 17 people including the Italian man in Montreal last month that we don't even hear about!
How ironic the RCMP are trying to save themselves!

Marty McCluskey from Canada writes: I am certain that there is a culture within the policing community that the public will believe whatever you tell them. Wonder how many poor souls have been deliberately killed by the police and we have never known the real story? Wonder how many people have been convicted and sent to jail based on stories concocted by the police? This story resonates with the public because it has shaken our collective belief that those who are charged with the responsibility of upholding the law flagrantly believe they are above the law. This may be Canada's version of the Rodney King case, but with much more tragic outcome.

Randy D from Canada writes: Paul F from Toronto--there was a greater example of abuse of police power. IanBush was shot in custody in Houston, BC and, if the police are to be believed there was no video of the 'interrogation'.
Pretty hard to verify given they left his body in the 'interrogation' room for over 24 hours and absolutely refused to allow any member of the public, including paramedics access. Is there a country in the world with more blatant double standards. It is beyond comprehension how anyobne can become an apologist for such a mind boggling abuse of power given this info which came out despite the straight jacket the over-paid cronies of the political elite put on proceedings.

Just a Canadian from Canada writes: To Dead Jerry from Canada:

Now without a shadow of doubt, you have disclosed your true identity (a police officer - aka thug)

Jerry must have be the name of poor individual that you beat to death- hence the name 'Dead Jerry'. Very slick officer. Stick with the thugs.

Inga Himeson from Pineville, Canada writes: Pete Kauchak, Green Tory from Cascadia in his 20/11/07 at 8:31 AM EST post writes about Tasers: …. '' It's up to manufacturer to ensure it is safe to use under all conditions&8230;''

Well Pete, I think to expect manufacturers to ensure their Taser use safety has as much of a chance of compliance as asking Snake Oil salesman to ensure their miracle drug safety.

Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ...all we are saying Mj et al. - and we really hate to resort to the trite - but let's not toss out the baby with the bathwater....

P W from Penticton, Canada writes: How did Tasers go from a substitute for lethal force to a first choice for crowd control? I believe they were initially sold to the public as an alternative to shooting someone. Their actual use has evolved to the casual, 'hit 'em again'. How did this happen?

And, like others, I'm distressed that the RCMP spokespersons seem more concerned with the RCMP being seen as 'right' rather than finding out what actually happened. It seems an 'us vs. them' mentality rather than helping the public. That poor man, upon seeing the police, called out 'policia! policia!' expecting help. It's heart-wrenching.

Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: Dead Jerry. You sound to me like someone who enjoys being provocative and pissing people off. So for you of all people, to denigrate someone who was needlessly killed by the police, requires a certain amount of Chutzpah.

First of all, the guy was clearly having a bad day. He was on a 10 hour flight and then was clearly lost in a place he doesn't speak the language for another 10 hours.

The effects of flying, and who knows, he may not have eaten for the 10 hours he was in the arrival area, so he could have been hungry, plus the confusion, probably put him over the edge.

So you add it all up. Tired, hungry, confused. So someone could act up in that situation. I wouldn't take pleasure in making fun of him, as you do. And when you call him 'a fat Polish dude' you are attempting to conjure up some stereotype, although you quickly deny it when confronted by it. This is the person who was killed by the police. It could be any 'normal' person. That's why everyone here finds it revolting.

The only point I would agree with you on is that you are a coward.

Longshanks the Elder from Paradise, Canada writes: Thom as from Canada writes: Political correctness may play a part here. At one time our police officers were hired based partially on their physical ability to face certain circumstances and usually their presence gained them enough respect to defuse many incidents.
Today they hire anyone and give them additional means of force to make up for their lack of physical abilities.
At one time the officers would have handled this case with much more confidence and poise rather than jumping in with tasers.
The video shows no attempt to handle this situation with any confident professionalism.

This comment makes a lot of sense to me.

Ken Cowan from Paris, France writes: Too bad ''Dead Jerry' isn't really dead... that would explain the foul smell every time he opens his mouth...I suspect he is the reincarnation of Michael Sharp... 20/11/07

Down.